Denish D’Souza v Christopher Hitchens hosted by Kings College, Manhattan
http://www.isi.org/lectures/flvplayer/lectureplayer.aspx?file=v000187_cicero_102207.flv
(a response to the debate by Kirk Vanacore)
Hitchens is a prominent, if not the most prominent, face of atheism. And it seems that D’Souza is attempting to be Hitchens’ antithetical persona: the face of Christian apologetics. His latest book, “What’s So Great About Christianity,” is a converse argument to Hitchens’ “God Is Not Great: Why Religion Poisons Everything” and recently he opposed Hitchens in a public debate (linked above) on the benefits of Christianity. During the debate, Hitchens articulately presented a distorted view of Christianity and God and, unfortunately, D’Souza matched his inadequacy by skewing the history of Christianity and failing to acknowledge its devastating shortfalls. Moreover, his approach to Hitchens was an insufflate representation of our faith.
D’Souza argued that Christianity has been and remains a force for good in the world, crediting it with the concept of human dignity and the creation of liberal democracy. While Jesus did speak of man’s dignity and the early church was known for valuing and caring for unwanted children, the values behind liberal democracy are not intrinsic to Christianity. The Bible speaks of equality among in the church, but it did not advocate for political self-determination. As Hitchens points out, the Medieval Church upheld serfdom. D’Souza’s emphasis on the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trails betrays his bias as he fails to mention atrocities with higher causalities such as the Crusades or the Thirty Years War. The Thirty Years War was fought by post-Reformation religious factions who placed political ambitions under a banner of religion and subsequently killed an estimated thirty percent the Holy Roman Empire’s (Germany) population. Furthermore, he downplays the executions of the Spanish Inquisition in a utilitarian manor – as if the 2,000 murders were understandable, if not acceptable, carnage. (Not to mention the number tortured and forced into conversion.) He even suggests that the ends of the Inquisition – the spread of Christianity – justified the means.
Despite the sins of Christendom, Christianity contributed positively to the world. Christians have clothed the homeless, visited prisoners, fed the hungry. In addition, many advancements in science, art, literature and philosophy were made by Christians and funded by the church. The problem with D’Souza’s argument is that the greatness of Christianity hinges upon its truth. If Christianity is not true, than it is nothing but a fantastic story – a work of fiction through which we can derive, at most, inspiration – and it’s authors would simply be a hodgepodge of Hesiods and Homers to whom we would own only literary credit. The product of these stories would simply be a mixed bag of goods and evils. Furthermore, all of the good, and the bad, would be no more meaningful than any other religion, philosophy or way of life – including Hitchens’ secularism. Because of his failure to substantiate the truth Christianity, D’Souza fails at apologetics.
D’Souza opens the debate by saying that he would “try to answer [Hitchens’] attack by using the same tools of reason and skepticism and science and evidence that is the banner under which the atheist march.” While the Bible does instruct us to defend our faith, it presents a very different approach than answering anthem with logic and reason. Peter explains that we should “always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have” (1 Peter 3:15, NIV), but he prefaces this statement by explaining that we must “live in harmony,” “love as brothers,” “be companionate and humble” and not “repay evil for evil” (3:8-9). We are to incite questions about our hope and holiness and answer “with gentleness and respect” (3:15). Peter does not instruct us attack the non-believers philosophy, but to live with provocative hope. Hitchens describes the religious as people living in fear of God’s disapproval. And while this is distortion of the truth, the fact that Hitchens’ critique of Christianity resonates among the masses reveals that we have work to do. I would suggest that the appropriate answer to Hitchens will not be found in debates, but in the peculiar lives, lived with unworldly hope.
Just wanted to add my two cents. D'Souza may have failed to acknowledge the Thirty Years War and the Crusades in this interview, but he does address them in his book. There is no validation for the crimes of Christianity, but he makes the interesting point that the thousands killed by Christians pale in comparison to the millions killed by atheists (He states Hitler, Mussolini, and Castro all claimed to be atheist). Hindsight is 20/20, and it is easy for all of us to say these acts carried out under Christian motives were wrong. What will Christians 100 or 200 years from now look back and view as our shortcomings? Are we bold enough to say we currently have it all figured out, after witnessing how drastically Christianity has evolved?
ReplyDeleteP.S. I don't think it's fair to attribute D'Souza's use of logic and reason to "repay[ing] evil for evil." I think God gave us the ability to reason so that we would use it!
Thanks for commenting Joel. I have not read the book yet, but it is on the ever growing list. Thanks for the insight. Here is my response (but not a rebuttal; I think you are on to something):
ReplyDeleteBy no means am I saying that D'Souza is "repaying evil for evil" - I apologize if my language suggested that - rather I was simply restating how Peter asks us to be witnesses for Christ.
Yes, we should use reason, but how? D'Souza wants to argue with the Atheists. In doing that, I believe, he takes on their utilitarian persona espousing an "You killed more than we killed" mentality. I do not believe this is a Christian way to use of reason. Rather, we should take to heart the critique of secularism and live in a way that insights there question. We want them to ask, "Why are they so different?" Right now, I don't think that they will care to ask, "Why did you kill less people than the secularist?" In short, I am saying the New Apologetics needs to be something in our lives, not in our rhetoric.
I am really interested in your last question. (Are we bold enough to say we currently have it all figured out, after witnessing how drastically Christianity has evolved?). Can you elaborate?
If you want to communicate with someone who speaks a foreign language, you learn their language. Similarly, if you want to talk with an atheist who uses reason, you too need to learn to reason. It is possible to reason without becoming an atheist. Frankly, I'm not so sure other people are asking why Christians are different, because there are plenty of non-Christians with the same values of integrity and morality. Does it not then come down to an issue of logic to determine truth?
ReplyDeleteAs far as my question was concerned, it was merely intended to provoke some thought because it has provoked me. Let's not be blinded by the sense of religiousness and moral superiority that has crippled Christianity in the past. Clearly Christian thought has changed over the past 2000 years (by no means do I think Christ's message has changed), and the accuracy in how we interpreted Christ's message has improved in my opinion. Does this mean we have everything right today? Of course not, and I think Christians in another 2000 years will look back on our time and see our downfalls as clear as day.
Thanks Kirk.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your analysis of the nature of D'Souza's response being non-Christian because 1) it is a poor response and 2) it misrepresents religious belief. Let me fuel the fire.
1) Arguing from the basic premise that Christianity is a force of good requires an obvious criterion of what a force of good is when there is no obvious criterion.
Is the UN a force of good? Its inept response to various African conflicts suggests that it is not a force (though it might be "good"). Is America a force of good? Perhaps "no", for reasons opposite to the UN.
Since there is no obvious criterion for determining "force of good" D'Souza is forced into using a false criterion...to paraphrase Kirk, "whoever kills the least".
2) Hitchens and D'Souze give into the odd expectation put on religion that it be a "peace-keeping" movement. In this sense, they both misrepresent religion. Religion certainly *seeks* peace. But it's focus is not so much our physical peace, but peace that transcends the physical. Perhaps THAT'S what Kirk implies by the New Apologetics being IN our lives.
I think this is an awesome article, and the discussion is really interesting too - I'd suggest asking Dr. Paul Brink into the conversation. He would have MUCH to say about the following argument:
ReplyDelete"If you want to communicate with someone who speaks a foreign language, you learn their language. Similarly, if you want to talk with an atheist who uses reason, you too need to learn to reason." -Joel
He wrote his dissertation on this exact issue. And he would disagree with you, Joel, but I can't remember why! So I'm sorry about that, I'll get back to you all.
Keep writing.
-Peter Morse
Joel – On the issue of using reason for apologetics, we must ask two questions: First, who is the audience? And second, does the decorum through which we present the gospel matter - can we simply the change language we use to describe our faith, no matter what the context?
ReplyDeleteFirstly, The audience is unclear. In his speech at the Union Club in Boston on Thursday, D’Souza explained that New Atheism is a growing threat for which we need a New Apolgetics. I had breakfast with him on Friday, during which I asked him if there was any empirical evidence atheism was growing. His answered was no. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary. The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life’s religious landscape survey for 2008 (http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report2-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf) shows that 92% of Americans believe in God; atheism is a small constituency. Summarizing, 21% of atheists also profess to believe in God. The issue is not secularist atheism, but it is – although D’Souza refuses to admit it – relativism. How could a modern, secularist, atheist, whose god is rationality, fill out a survey and say that they subscribe to the belief in no God and in God at the same time? It wouldn’t happen; these are the postmodernists who do not strictly follow logic and science. Furthermore, 70% of religious people believe that there is more than one way to heaven – another sign of spiritual relativism. The audience has changed, which beings me to my second point (or question/prompt): Are you willing to present the gospel in the language of relativism?
A few thoughts to add...
ReplyDeleteRegarding "Are you willing to present the gospel in the language of relativism?"
Is this even possible? Or is the gospel somehow, by its very nature, non-relative in such a way that no relative language can accurately describe or explain it?
If it is possible, how? Has anybody figured this out? How can people who don't even see the question be shown that there is an answer? If a person were completely blind, how could you possibly explain to them that tonight's sunset was more colorful than last night's?
I agree that D'Souza's defense was insufficient and even painful. The entire debate reminds me of an elementary school "my dad is better than your dad" argument. Neither one is ever going to be convinced by the other. Nor is the audience going to be rationally convinced of anything besides the multiplicity of reasons (excuses) that can be found for BOTH sides.
Regarding using reason to defend or prove faith (ie, super-rational apologetics): is this desirable? In my experience, those who demand super-rational explanations for faith/God/etc have base assumptions which do not allow for faith, or strict standards of proof which are never satisfied. In other words, like Hutchins said, the burden of proof is with the faith-ers, and reason by itself seems incapable of providing that proof.
Also, in this age it is unfortunately impossible to actually know your entire audience. An apologist must pick a target audience, trust they are reached, and hope that everyone else understands at least something. It seems like a hopeless cause if the purpose is to persuade the entire audience. If, however, the purpose is to provoke thought, and maybe provide answers to someone, then it can be better justified.
If people of faith still want to defend themselves and their faith, they are left with several choices: a) Use reason to explain God/faith/etc, and admit the rest is a personal choice (which D'Souza seems to be attempting...); b) Don't try to explain using reason, but LIVE in such a way that they are forced to admit your faith isn't such a terrible thing (...the idea of hope); or c) Focus on living according to Scripture, but always be willing and ready to attempt explanation for any who asks.
Think of Acts - the disciples didn't go around picking arguments, but whenever they were taken before the authorities, they spoke. What's interesting about their situation is that they weren't all the brightest or best-educated, and didn't spend hours rehearsing speeches, but when the time and place were right, and they were called to answer, they were "filled with the Holy Spirit" and their hearers were "astonished." (Acts 4:6,13) Basically, where a reasonable defense was proper and helpful, they were enabled by the God they defended to defend Him well.
I am by no means advocating the neglect of reason, or ignoring history, science, or theology, but I think we need to remember that ultimately, any authority we have is not our own. Perhaps some people will laugh (I certainly laughed at both D'Souza and Hutchins), perhaps they will dismiss, perhaps they will vilify, but a word of truth is a seed planted - we don't know where - which will not return fruitless. "Not by might, nor by power" - nor by reason - "but by my Spirit, says the LORD Almighty." (Zec 4:6) And THAT is where we have both our hope and our explanation.
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